Who has their camer crystal synced????

[Matt Pacini]

Hi.
I was just wondering:
Who on this board has their Super 8 camera crystal synced, and if so, who did the modification, and would you recommend them?

Matt Pacini


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[Nigel]

I do--I have a 4008ZMII with the 6-66 lens. It was Synced by The Film Group. Yes I would say to anyone out there that is thinking about it to have it done. It does hold sync and while the camera is loud it does hold sync.

I have used it a couple of times--even when I am MOS shooting I still shoot with it running at speed. It was a great choice. Good Luck

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[Matt Pacini]

Nigel, can they do an internal sync mod, or does it have to be that dorky umbilical setup with them?

I saw some company on the internet a couple years ago, that did internal ones, but I can't for the life of me find them again.
Anybody know who does internal crystal sync mods?

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[Scottness]

Yeah Matt - I do - as you probably know - exactly the same type as Nigel's actually - and yes it does look dorky - the only two problems with it I see is that you must disconnect that curly lead from the unit and if you don't the battery will go flat - we forgot to do this once and I wonder if that helped cause that flickering (see seperate thread I'm about to start)-- also always disconnecting that lead creates wear on it - it's some type of tight bayonet fitting which requires squeezing to undo - I can't see why they just couldn't put an on/off switch on it which disables the battery and then they could have the lead fixed in permanently to the unit - and at their prices I can't see whay they couldn't (I'm considering asking a friend of mine to put such a switch in) -- but apart from that all seem's to be fine - the guy at the Film Group is very polite

Hope this helps - I'm yet to start transferring the telecine and synching up the sound but Nigel says it all seems to be right - hey don't they do crystal synch jobs at Super8 Sound ;-)

Scotness

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[jocko]

Matt,
THE FILM GROUP did my Nizo 6080 and my 2056 they did the mod on my Canon Scoopic that is internal..I also remember a company doing internal sync mods..and mods were you had the sync module attatched to the side of the camera by a din plug..it was small about 2"..I'm not sure but I remember the name JA Carpenter Cine ?..with modern micro electronics you would think somebody could do internal mods..the Film group does nice work..but you have to move around the mod..it's almost as big as the camera

Neil

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[Scottness]

Hey Matt have you thought of making your own - I don't know what your electronics skills are like (and I have none!) but there was a thread on the alt newsgoup ages ago about someone doing that - this is the link for the controller they were usinghttp://www.parallaxinc.com/downloads/Documentation/Motor%20Mind/Motor%20Mind%20B%20Brief.pdf

I'll post te exchanges here too (because I saved them):

Scottness
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Subject: Re: Repost: Homebuilt crystal sync $ 29
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 08:38:12 GMT
From: "Paul H. Cotto" <[email protected]>
Organization: AT&T Worldnet
Newsgroups: alt.movies.cinematography.super8

I started experimenting with this, the problem is I need a stable +5 volt
pulse signal from the camera 1 time per frame. The easiest way to get this
would be to couple a optical encoder to the 1:1 ratio frame shaft near the
front of the camera. I also need a way to mount it. I recently ordered a
small hobbyist metal cutting lathe for experiments making a mount for the
encoder. Most encoders pulse output in high resolution like 100 times per
second or more. You can get them in custom configurations also for different
pulse rates. The micromind-B uses a resonator for timing the circuit, the
resonator can vary with temperature changes so it won't be as accurate as
Mr. Tobins devices, but I am hoping its good enough for 2min 30sec for
super-8 sync. I am sorry for the slow progress, I am in the military and my
duties cause me to work long hours lately. I hope to have it working soon.

Regards,
Paul Cotto

"popdeer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I?m reposting a topic Paul H. Cotto posted a while ago...
>
> If anyone would like to try building his own crystal sync motor governor
> for his 8mm camera this can be made by using this circute-board.
>
> www.parallaxinc.com has a standalone Module for Basic Stamp called "Motor
> Mind B".
> It takes in tachometer pulses (from the flash socket?) (up to 65,528 Hz)
> and governs the motor thereby ... If you set it to 24hz and connect it to
> the flash contact and motor...
> I guess it would run the camera in perfect sync @ 24 frames / sec (or was
it
> 60 hz ?)
>
> maybe I?m just talking, I?m a little tired here, go check it out for
> yourself.
>
> check out the middle of this page for Motor Mind B
> http://www.parallaxinc.com/html_file..._brief.asp#mmb
>
> the cost is only $ 29 !!!!!!!
>
> just trying ways to get round the expensive Tobin-gear ...
> not that I wouldn?t pay the price IF I had the money.
>
> /popdeer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================================
Subject: Re: Repost: Homebuilt crystal sync $ 29
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 01:59:36 -0000
From: "CT" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: alt.movies.cinematography.super8

Paul H. Cotto wrote in message ...
>I started experimenting with this, the problem is I need a stable +5 volt
>pulse signal from the camera 1 time per frame. The easiest way to get this
>would be to couple a optical encoder to the 1:1 ratio frame shaft near the
>front of the camera. I also need a way to mount it. I recently ordered a
>small hobbyist metal cutting lathe for experiments making a mount for the
>encoder. Most encoders pulse output in high resolution like 100 times per
>second or more. You can get them in custom configurations also for
different
>pulse rates. The micromind-B uses a resonator for timing the circuit, the
>resonator can vary with temperature changes so it won't be as accurate as
>Mr. Tobins devices, but I am hoping its good enough for 2min 30sec for
>super-8 sync. I am sorry for the slow progress, I am in the military and my
>duties cause me to work long hours lately. I hope to have it working soon.
>
>Regards,
>Paul Cotto
>
>

Hi Paul,

Which camera are you trying the conversion on? Do you have any more info on
the motor or any tests you've carried out on it? I'd be interested in any
technical detail you've found out.

I've been thinking about what kind of control circuitry to use if building
crystal sync from scratch. My initial thoughts are that the closer the
feedback circuit is to the motor the better in terms of accuracy/resolution
(but I have zero experience of this kind of circuit). This also may not be
best for practical reasons (the externally accessible shaft on a Beaulieu
for instance, or for weird gearing ratios). Does anyone know the typical
ratio of motor rpm to frame rate on an S8 camera? I'd be specifically
interested in any info on Beaulieus. I assume the pilot tone/back wind
shaft 1:1?

The resonator problem is another question; to keep reasonable sync over a
cartridge (assuming a constant linear error and dropping a max of one frame
at the end) I reckon you'd need about 0.02% accuracy. This is at
least an order of magnitude away from some resonators. It may be possible
to modify one of the stamp boards for an external crystal clock, but I'd
want to try it before putting any money on it

Good luck with the conversion, and many thanks for the info.

Chris
=============================================

Subject: Re: Repost: Homebuilt crystal sync $ 29
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 04:48:44 GMT
From: [email protected] (A.L.)
Organization: none
Newsgroups: alt.movies.cinematography.super8

On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 01:59:36 -0000, "CT" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Paul H. Cotto wrote in message ...
>>I started experimenting with this, the problem is I need a stable +5 volt
>>pulse signal from the camera 1 time per frame. The easiest way to get this
>>would be to couple a optical encoder to the 1:1 ratio frame shaft near the
>>front of the camera. I also need a way to mount it. I recently ordered a
>>small hobbyist metal cutting lathe for experiments making a mount for the
>>encoder. Most encoders pulse output in high resolution like 100 times per
>>second or more. You can get them in custom configurations also for
>different
>>pulse rates. The micromind-B uses a resonator for timing the circuit, the
>>resonator can vary with temperature changes so it won't be as accurate as
>>Mr. Tobins devices, but I am hoping its good enough for 2min 30sec for
>>super-8 sync. I am sorry for the slow progress, I am in the military and my
>>duties cause me to work long hours lately. I hope to have it working soon.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Paul Cotto
>>
>>
>
>Hi Paul,
>
>Which camera are you trying the conversion on? Do you have any more info on
>the motor or any tests you've carried out on it? I'd be interested in any
>technical detail you've found out.
>
>I've been thinking about what kind of control circuitry to use if building
>crystal sync from scratch. My initial thoughts are that the closer the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I crystal synced a projector using a 16f84 PIC (not a BASIC stamp).
Note this chip is small enough to fit inside most cameras, in fact the
the sync design was originally intended for crystal synincing some of
my super 8 cameras. I programmed the PIC to perform 3 functions.

1. Software PLL / Tach
2. Pulse Width Modulator
3. SMPTE Signal Generator / Sync Tone

The PIC is pretty good. It even has schmitt trigger inputs on it!
It has a few quirks related to interrupt processing / timing, but its
cheap (I think the OTP version is like $3 ) and sure does pack a lot
of punch..

>feedback circuit is to the motor the better in terms of accuracy/resolution
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
Not neccessarily, You want the tach to give you the largest number of
pulses per frame that you can get. This may or may not, be directly
from the motor shaft. In one of my projector projects, I was very
worried of belt slippage ( as well as have to know when the shutter is
open) so I was forced to place the tach right on the shutter's shaft
instead of the motor drive shaft.

>(but I have zero experience of this kind of circuit). This also may not be
>best for practical reasons (the externally accessible shaft on a Beaulieu
>for instance, or for weird gearing ratios).
hmm.. a weird gearing ratio really shouldn't make a difference.
Ofcourse , the higher the better.

>Does anyone know the typical
>ratio of motor rpm to frame rate on an S8 camera? I'd be specifically
>interested in any info on Beaulieus. I assume the pilot tone/back wind
>shaft 1:1?
Remember even if you can only use a low ratio shaft like 1 to 1 for
your tach sensor, you can still get more resolution out of it
depending on type of sensor you are using for tach. If you are using a
multi toothed gear / ferrous/mag sensor for instance. If you are
using an optical sensor like someone previously suggested ( I bad
idea if the sensor will be IN the camera! <laugh> ) you can make it
multi leafed (or holed or what ever) so it interrupts n times per
frame.

>
>The resonator problem is another question; to keep reasonable sync over a
>cartridge (assuming a constant linear error and dropping a max of one frame
>at the end) I reckon you'd need about 0.02% accuracy. This is at
>least an order of magnitude away from some resonators.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Accuracy (especiallty for the short run Super 8 cartridges) should
not be a problem, even if you are not using a programable PIC. A
very conservative divide by 100 counter will reduce your accuracy
requirment to 2%.

I will try to find the time to publish ( on th web) my experiments.

> It may be possible
>to modify one of the stamp boards for an external crystal clock, but I'd
>want to try it before putting any money on it
>
>Good luck with the conversion, and many thanks for the info.
>
>Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>



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[Nigel]

Matt--

I don't mind the "Dorky" set-up with my camera. I have an external battery so it does not really add much in the way of things coming off the camera.

I also wonder how much space there is inside a S8 camera that was not intended to be crystal controlled, and if you could put the whole unit inside???

Good Luck

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[crimsonson]

hi Matt!
I bought a Nizo Pro already crystal sync'd. It was done by the OLD Super 8 Sound in Mass.

It has two wires, one attaches to the flash input for power and the sync wire is attached in to mini-plug on the bare side of the body- just behind the lens.

The unit itself is about 2x2x1'. It was designed so it would screw between the cam and tripod using the 1/4' nut of tripod plate.

The best I have seen is the one by the Film Group done on a 6080- A small box permanently attached to the left side of the cam- by the little white circular symbol under the dissolve knob.

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[This message has been edited by crimsonson (edited September 16, 2001).]

[Matt Pacini]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nigel:
[B]Matt--
"I also wonder how much space there is inside a S8 camera that was not intended to be crystal controlled, and if you could put the whole unit inside???"

Nigel, I have a 6056 with the crystal sync mod that Super 8 Sound did long ago, and it's a little box (about 1x1x1) that is screwed onto the left side of the camera, with 4 wires that go to various locations inside the camera. Two soldered directly to the circuit board in plain view, and 2 that disappear into the mysterious inside, where you have to have cajone's the size of a Buick to get into, if you get my drift! (Did I spell that correctly?).
It's really small, much smaller than the Film Group ones, so I'm sure it would fit in there. (Not sure why Film Groups box is so big... to make it look worth $500?).
I think there's room where the sound mechanics to the camera are.
I could remove that stuff, because of course, there's never going to be sound film again, and even if there were, I wouldn't use it.
So anyway, I want to move the unit inside my 6080, which sounds simple, since I already have the unit, but like I said in another post, the electronics are not identical between the 6056 & 6080, and if you've ever had one of these open, my God, are they complex!
I almost shake with fear that I'm going to forget where something goes. I really want to do this, but I know whoever does it is going to want a ton of money for it, and I just can't afford it right now.
If only I had the guts... I simply don't know what those wires are going to on the circuit board, and unfortunately, one of the 2 on the face of the board, is what is different about the 6056 & 6080, so you actually would have to know EXACTLY how to trace what those things are going to, & I'm in the category of being able to hook up speakers & stuff, but not this. Way over my head!

Matt Pacini

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[MadFor3D]

Hey, if anyone ever finds a good website on how to do it yourself please post it here! I've been thinking its a bit crazy to spend $500 to do so on a camera $200-$300 camera.

-M

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